Good to see the Welsh Assembly engaed on serious business

Fans of devolution will be overjoyed to hear that today the Welsh

And this needed to be crossposted to scot.politics because?

--
Guig
GSF600SY Bandit - It's blue you know.
CBFA #1

Oh for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen.

hognoxious

2003-07-16 11:35:02 UTC

Fans of devolution will be overjoyed to hear that today the Welsh

And this needed to be crossposted to scot.politics because?

Perhaps because the jocks, like the taffs, are a bunch of dispoportionately
ginger gits who whine constantly about the English?

Guig

2003-07-16 20:28:16 UTC

Post by hognoxious
Perhaps because the jocks, like the taffs, are a bunch of
dispoportionately ginger gits who whine constantly about the English?

However, we are capable of spelling "disproportionately" correctly.

--
Guig
GSF600SY Bandit - It's blue you know.
CBFA #1

Oh for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen.

hognoxious

2003-07-16 22:43:04 UTC

Post by hognoxious
Perhaps because the jocks, like the taffs, are a bunch of
dispoportionately ginger gits who whine constantly about the English?

However, we are capable of spelling "disproportionately" correctly.

I noticed as soon as I hit send, but kudos to you and the other one who can
read.

Lyn David Thomas

2003-07-16 17:21:03 UTC

Fans of devolution will be overjoyed to hear that today the Welsh

And this needed to be crossposted to scot.politics because?

Because he is a troll, kill file him, your life will be so much better.

Guig

2003-07-16 23:43:31 UTC

And he, and the responses to him do clog up groups and drive out the
other discussions. Which is one of his aims.

I can safely say that I've never let a troll drive me out of a group, and
I'm in groups with far more trolls and twats in it than this one. :)

--
Guig
GSF600SY Bandit - It's blue you know.
CBFA #1

Oh for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen.

Steven X Brown

2003-07-17 09:57:36 UTC

And he, and the responses to him do clog up groups and drive out the
other discussions. Which is one of his aims.

I can safely say that I've never let a troll drive me out of a group, and
I'm in groups with far more trolls and twats in it than this one. :)

Yep. alt.womens.institute.crochet-and-knitting can get rough at times... ;-)

--
Steven X Brown (was Nick Kersdown)

Guig

2003-07-17 10:15:27 UTC

Post by Steven X Brown
Yep. alt.womens.institute.crochet-and-knitting can get rough at times... ;-)

Cheeky bastard! :)

--
Guig
GSF600SY Bandit - It's blue you know.
CBFA #1

Oh for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen.

Steven X Brown

2003-07-17 11:11:02 UTC

Post by Steven X Brown
Yep. alt.womens.institute.crochet-and-knitting can get rough at times... ;-)

Cheeky bastard! :)

:-D That's my name! (next week it is anyway... ;-))

--
Steven X Brown (was Nick Kersdown)

Jim Monaghan

2003-07-20 15:34:54 UTC

Fans of devolution will be overjoyed to hear that today the Welsh

And this needed to be crossposted to scot.politics because?

Of course its not as relevant to a Scottish politics ng as the origins of
your name.

Post by Guig
--
Guig
GSF600SY Bandit - It's blue you know.
CBFA #1
Oh for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen.

Robert Henderson

2003-07-20 16:54:31 UTC

Post by Jim Monaghan

Fans of devolution will be overjoyed to hear that today the Welsh

And this needed to be crossposted to scot.politics because?

Of course its not as relevant to a Scottish politics ng as the origins of
your name.

That was very relevant because the various Scotch contributors are under
the delusion it is a singularly Scotch name. RH

Post by Jim Monaghan

Post by Guig
--
Guig
GSF600SY Bandit - It's blue you know.
CBFA #1
Oh for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen.

--
Robert Henderson
***@anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

Guig

2003-07-20 18:11:04 UTC

Post by Jim Monaghan
Of course its not as relevant to a Scottish politics ng as the
origins of your name.

Jim, you should know that I just came into being fully formed and just
picked the first three names I saw on a bit of paper. :)

--
Guig
GSF600SY Bandit - It's blue you know.
CBFA #1

Oh for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen.

blewyn

2003-07-17 10:03:40 UTC

Only if it doesn't suit your confrontational personality. Hmmm...I
wonder what kind of people we should have running the country ? Those
that are most comfortable debating and striving for consensus, or
those that prefer to bawl at each other across the room ?

Anything that promotes debate of the issues and inhibits party
politics is a good thing in my book....

Blewyn

Joe Hutcheon

2003-07-17 13:33:18 UTC

Post by blewyn
Anything that promotes debate of the issues and inhibits party
politics is a good thing in my book...

How on earth does the replacement of party politics by an endless
succession of people agreeing with each other promote debate? It
didn't in Stalin's Russia ... why on earth would it here?

Well, what we have here seems to be two main parties falling over each
other to ban as many things as possible, and to take away what few
rights we have left. Dissent by party members is seen as 'helping the
other side'. Maybe a less 'us and them' approach might encourage
those in both parties who oppose these trends to work together to
limit the damage.

Jim Monaghan

2003-07-20 17:54:13 UTC

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:33:18 +0100, Joe Hutcheon

Post by Joe Hutcheon

Post by blewyn
Anything that promotes debate of the issues and inhibits party
politics is a good thing in my book...

How on earth does the replacement of party politics by an endless
succession of people agreeing with each other promote debate? It
didn't in Stalin's Russia ... why on earth would it here?

Well, what we have here seems to be two main parties falling over each
other to ban as many things as possible, and to take away what few
rights we have left.

This is true.

Post by Joe Hutcheon
Dissent by party members is seen as 'helping the
other side'.

Party discipline which is aided and abetted by a hysterical press and
broadcast media which howls "gaffe" and "split" whenever a Commons MP
dares to utter an original thought.

Post by Joe Hutcheon
Maybe a less 'us and them' approach might encourage
those in both parties who oppose these trends to work together to
limit the damage.

If you lived in Baghdad you wouldnt think that recent working together by
Britains 2 main parties did much in the way of damage limitation.

I agree. It is about time MPs began to rediscover their independence.
But if the present system is already too "consensual" within parties,
think how much worse the previous poster's preferred system would be.

Just 2 elections in I think the system is allowing for more diversity and
less concensus. The Lib Lab pact may work on the few main policies they
have agreed on but will split when real fundamental issues emerge.>

Mike CJ

2003-07-31 21:52:15 UTC

The Welsh Assembly is a waste of space.
Mike.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.505 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 30-Jul-2003

blue

2003-08-03 09:40:28 UTC

Post by Mike CJ
The Welsh Assembly is a waste of space.

If it's not governing an independent land then it's
an overblown layer of government dealing with
a few counties.

Lyn David Thomas

2003-08-04 17:48:55 UTC

Post by Mike CJ
The Welsh Assembly is a waste of space.

If it's not governing an independent land then it's
an overblown layer of government dealing with
a few counties.

So the only units of government should be national and local? No regional
authorities, no federal states?

It democratises an existing layer of government.

Steve Day

2003-08-04 17:32:40 UTC

Post by Mike CJ
The Welsh Assembly is a waste of space.

If it's not governing an independent land then it's
an overblown layer of government dealing with
a few counties.

So the only units of government should be national and local? No regional
authorities, no federal states?
It democratises an existing layer of government.

No it just adds another level of burocracy and taxation, regional assys
welsh assys etc are just money making schemes for greedy ambitious local
politico types who can not make the grade in parliament

Chris X

2003-08-04 17:51:44 UTC

Post by Mike CJ
The Welsh Assembly is a waste of space.

If it's not governing an independent land then it's
an overblown layer of government dealing with
a few counties.

So the only units of government should be national and local? No regional
authorities, no federal states?
It democratises an existing layer of government.

It's also the thin end of the wedge for those dark forces in Washington and
Tel-Aviv who want to see the UK splintered into it's meaningless, impotent
component parts.

"Whenever freedom is desecrated the best men meet in prison."
www.bnp.org.uk
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policy/policy_forum.htm

Chris X

2003-08-04 20:41:26 UTC

Post by Chris X
It's also the thin end of the wedge for those dark forces in Washington and
Tel-Aviv who want to see the UK splintered into it's meaningless, impotent
component parts.

Oh dear - I see the nutters are here again.... Tel-Aviv! Do you fascists
never learn - or grow up?

I once had a girlfriend called Lyn.

"Whenever freedom is desecrated the best men meet in prison."
www.bnp.org.uk
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policy/policy_forum.htm

Lyn David Thomas

2003-08-04 21:58:24 UTC

Oh dear - I see the nutters are here again.... Tel-Aviv! Do you fascists
never learn - or grow up?

I once had a girlfriend called Lyn.

How unfortunate for her..

--
Lyn David Thomas

Chris X

2003-08-04 21:08:15 UTC

Oh dear - I see the nutters are here again.... Tel-Aviv! Do you fascists
never learn - or grow up?

I once had a girlfriend called Lyn.

How unfortunate for her..

Don't be daft, babe. It's a nice name, I like it. I'm just curious as to
why your parent(s) gave you a boy's middle name ?

"Whenever freedom is desecrated the best men meet in prison."
www.bnp.org.uk
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policy/policy_forum.htm

Lyn David Thomas

2003-08-05 17:38:32 UTC

Oh dear - I see the nutters are here again.... Tel-Aviv! Do you

fascists

never learn - or grow up?

I once had a girlfriend called Lyn.

How unfortunate for her..

Don't be daft, babe. It's a nice name, I like it. I'm just curious as to
why your parent(s) gave you a boy's middle name ?

Actually both are men's names in Wales.... as for the unfortunate I feel
sorry for anyone who goes out with a fascist.

--
Lyn David Thomas

Ikie Cabolacov

2003-08-09 00:22:52 UTC

Oh dear - I see the nutters are here again.... Tel-Aviv! Do you fascists
never learn - or grow up?

I once had a girlfriend called Lyn.

How unfortunate for her..
--
Lyn David Thomas

No ! how unfortunate for females everywhere that one might fall for a prat
like him. ;o)
--Ikie

Lyn David Thomas

2003-08-09 07:28:18 UTC

Post by Ikie Cabolacov
No ! how unfortunate for females everywhere that one might fall for a prat
like him. ;o)

Indeed. Fascists never make good boyfriends.....

Followups heavily trimmed to only uk.politics.misc and alt.politics.british

--
Lyn David Thomas

Lyn David Thomas

2003-08-09 10:07:41 UTC

Newsgroups restored after being trimmed by the Welsh Weirdo.

Post by Ikie Cabolacov
No ! how unfortunate for females everywhere that one might fall for a

prat

Post by Ikie Cabolacov
like him. ;o)

Indeed. Fascists never make good boyfriends.....

Well, you'd know more about having "boyfriends" than most, wouldn't you, you
disgusting creature ?

LOL being called disgusting by a racist and a fascist such as your self is
a complement. And given that the NF, BNP and assorted other far right
groups have long had gay members and leadership I think I'd be careful as
to what I was saying, unless you want a visit from your leader guard.....

Followups set away from wales.politics.assembly

--
Lyn David Thomas

Jonathan Bratt

2003-08-09 18:13:36 UTC

Newsgroups restored after being trimmed by the Welsh Weirdo.

Post by Ikie Cabolacov
No ! how unfortunate for females everywhere that one might fall for a

prat

Post by Ikie Cabolacov
like him. ;o)

Indeed. Fascists never make good boyfriends.....

Well, you'd know more about having "boyfriends" than most, wouldn't you, you
disgusting creature ?

Dunno - maybe I would know more, maybe you would know more. You have to
know something about one subject surely.

--
Jonathan Bratt

Lyn David Thomas

2003-08-04 21:27:42 UTC

Post by Lyn David Thomas
It democratises an existing layer of government.

That your considered opinion then....

So countries like Germany and the USA should abolish their states right
away.... China too maybe?

--
Lyn David Thomas

Steve Day

2003-08-04 20:42:58 UTC

Post by Lyn David Thomas
It democratises an existing layer of government.

That your considered opinion then....
So countries like Germany and the USA should abolish their states right
away.... China too maybe?

When they have populations such as germany over 90 million, the US 300
Million or China over a billion there is a need for devolved government, but
in the UK their is no need for either devolved govt nor regional
assemblys,Wales is a good example its got a assmebly that is achieve next to
nothing west of Cardif, Why does Wales need an assembly ?? Its not aseperate
country only a principality, Northumbria has a more justified cae for an
assembly if one was needed. Its just another level of admin, rule writers,
tax gatherers and non productive watr4s of space.

Post by Lyn David Thomas
--
Lyn David Thomas

Malcolm

2003-08-04 22:11:59 UTC

Post by Lyn David Thomas
It democratises an existing layer of government.

That your considered opinion then....
So countries like Germany and the USA should abolish their states right
away.... China too maybe?
--
Lyn David Thomas

This Nation has done perfectly fine for centuries without Wales, Scotland OR
England having their own ridiculous "Parliaments". Enjoy your brief little
interlude of masturbatory navel-gazing and expenses-fiddling becuase it will
not last much longer, I can assure you of that !

You can? Gosh, you must be an awfully clever and powerful person,
then.....

Prat!

--
Malcolm

Chris X

2003-08-09 06:51:30 UTC

Post by Lyn David Thomas
It democratises an existing layer of government.

No it just adds another level of burocracy and taxation, regional

assys

Post by Steve Day
welsh assys etc are just money making schemes for greedy ambitious

local

Post by Steve Day
politico types who can not make the grade in parliament

That your considered opinion then....
So countries like Germany and the USA should abolish their states right
away.... China too maybe?
--
Lyn David Thomas

This Nation has done perfectly fine for centuries without Wales,

Scotland

England having their own ridiculous "Parliaments". Enjoy your brief

little

interlude of masturbatory navel-gazing and expenses-fiddling becuase it

will

not last much longer, I can assure you of that !

I think you may find that England has had a parliament without regard for
it's other neighbours
for Centuries.The north of England too IMO
When we have the revolution you will not be spared.You self centered

excuse

for a mammal.
--Ikie

Well "Kikie", you carry on deluding yourself about your idea of a Marxist
revolution, ROTFLMAO !

It will be those who are actively trying to dismember the UK and who are
playing a part in the process who will be judged, and if found guilty
there'll be a terrible price to pay, I assure you.

"Whenever freedom is desecrated the best men meet in prison."
www.bnp.org.uk
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policy/policy_forum.htm

Chris X

2003-08-09 18:36:07 UTC

Post by Chris X
It will be those who are actively trying to dismember the UK and who
are playing a part in the process who will be judged, and if found
guilty there'll be a terrible price to pay, I assure you.

Dinner with you?
--
Jonathan Bratt

L0L, very good !

"Whenever freedom is desecrated the best men meet in prison."
www.bnp.org.uk
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policy/policy_forum.htm

Ikie Cabolacov

2003-08-10 22:00:20 UTC

Post by Lyn David Thomas
It democratises an existing layer of government.

No it just adds another level of burocracy and taxation, regional

assys

Post by Steve Day
welsh assys etc are just money making schemes for greedy ambitious

local

Post by Steve Day
politico types who can not make the grade in parliament

That your considered opinion then....
So countries like Germany and the USA should abolish their states

right

Post by Lyn David Thomas
away.... China too maybe?
--
Lyn David Thomas

This Nation has done perfectly fine for centuries without Wales,

Scotland

England having their own ridiculous "Parliaments". Enjoy your brief

little

interlude of masturbatory navel-gazing and expenses-fiddling becuase it

will

not last much longer, I can assure you of that !

excuse

for a mammal.
--Ikie

Well "Kikie", you carry on deluding yourself about your idea of a Marxist
revolution, ROTFLMAO !
It will be those who are actively trying to dismember the UK and who are
playing a part in the process who will be judged, and if found guilty
there'll be a terrible price to pay, I assure you.
"Whenever freedom is desecrated the best men meet in prison."
www.bnp.org.uk
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html
http://www.bnp.org.uk/policy/policy_forum.htm

Judge as thy will be judged I am no Marxist just a realist
--Ikie

Ikie Cabolacov

2003-08-09 00:17:02 UTC

Post by Mike CJ
The Welsh Assembly is a waste of space.

If it's not governing an independent land then it's
an overblown layer of government dealing with
a few counties.

So the only units of government should be national and local? No regional
authorities, no federal states?
It democratises an existing layer of government.

If England were ruled in Paris without a say locally I suppose that would be
acceptable to you ?
sits waiting for hypocrisy.
--Ikie

AlanG

2003-08-04 18:23:05 UTC

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:08:27 +0100, Robert Henderson

If they had used a full circle would they have been in danger of
disappearing up their own assemblies?

--
Alan G
"The corporate life [of society] must be
subservient to the lives of the parts instead
of the lives of the parts being subservient to
the corporate life."
(Herbert Spencer)

Simon J Fisher

2003-08-11 10:51:06 UTC

What have we done to deserve this mess?

Unfortunately for myself and a lot of people I know, we didn't get off
our arses and vote against it. Now we're stuck with the monstrosity
and probably won't get another chance to vote against it.

-----------------------------------------
People like you always quote "a lot of people I know" and "my best friends a
***"
The fact is the only people you meet are on Kilroy or on the way to the dole
office while England Enjoys almost full employment.
You may know of a lot of people but no-body has ever heard of you,or ever
will.
--Ikie

Having a bad day are we?

Ikie Cabolacov

2003-08-12 22:23:03 UTC

What have we done to deserve this mess?

Unfortunately for myself and a lot of people I know, we didn't get off
our arses and vote against it. Now we're stuck with the monstrosity
and probably won't get another chance to vote against it.

Having a bad day are we?

No My parents were high flyers in the Tory party and I know how this lot
really think. ;o)
.
--Ikie

Simon J Fisher

2003-08-14 07:13:58 UTC

What have we done to deserve this mess?

Unfortunately for myself and a lot of people I know, we didn't get off
our arses and vote against it. Now we're stuck with the monstrosity
and probably won't get another chance to vote against it.

-----------------------------------------
People like you always quote "a lot of people I know" and "my best

friends a

Post by Steve Day
***"
The fact is the only people you meet are on Kilroy or on the way to the

dole

Post by Steve Day
office while England Enjoys almost full employment.
You may know of a lot of people but no-body has ever heard of you,or

ever

Post by Steve Day
will.
--Ikie

Having a bad day are we?

No My parents were high flyers in the Tory party and I know how this lot
really think. ;o)
.
--Ikie

Maybe they think all welsh people's only social contacts are on Kilroy
or the dole office.

Simon J Fisher

2003-08-16 23:25:57 UTC

What have we done to deserve this mess?

Unfortunately for myself and a lot of people I know, we didn't get

off

our arses and vote against it. Now we're stuck with the

monstrosity

and probably won't get another chance to vote against it.

-----------------------------------------
People like you always quote "a lot of people I know" and "my best

friends a

Post by Steve Day
***"
The fact is the only people you meet are on Kilroy or on the way to

the
dole

Post by Steve Day
office while England Enjoys almost full employment.
You may know of a lot of people but no-body has ever heard of you,or

ever

Post by Steve Day
will.
--Ikie

Having a bad day are we?

No My parents were high flyers in the Tory party and I know how this lot
really think. ;o)
.
--Ikie

Maybe they think all welsh people's only social contacts are on Kilroy
or the dole office.

No just idiots who quote the "people they know ".Whatever their race.
I only claim to know what I know and what Tory's I have heard spout off
actually think.
Surely you are not trying to claim I don't know my parents ?
Perhaps you don't know yours and that is what is causing your
misunderstanding.!
--Ikie

OK, let's put the 'people I know' thing aside and concentrate on my
main point. I was against the welsh assembly at the outset because I
believed it would just be an expensive talking shop, a bolthole for
has-been politicians and a body that would be ever seeking to increase
it's size and power, be a dividing force of the UK and a drain on
scarce resources. x number of years later and my observations (not
least the subject of this thread) have only reinforced this view. This
is my view as a free thinking individual welsh person and not as a
tory, labourite, new labourite or anything else. What's your view on
the validity (or otherwise) of the assembly? You seem to be
concentrating on a very small part of what I said originally.

Ikie Cabolacov

2003-08-20 23:13:48 UTC

What have we done to deserve this mess?

Unfortunately for myself and a lot of people I know, we didn't get

off

our arses and vote against it. Now we're stuck with the

monstrosity

and probably won't get another chance to vote against it.

-----------------------------------------
People like you always quote "a lot of people I know" and "my best

friends a

Post by Steve Day
***"
The fact is the only people you meet are on Kilroy or on the way to

the
dole

Post by Steve Day
office while England Enjoys almost full employment.
You may know of a lot of people but no-body has ever heard of you,or

ever

Post by Steve Day
will.
--Ikie

Having a bad day are we?

No My parents were high flyers in the Tory party and I know how this lot
really think. ;o)
.
--Ikie

Maybe they think all welsh people's only social contacts are on Kilroy
or the dole office.

I would have thought a true Welshman would want to make decisions about his
life in Wales
by Welshmen etc.
The talking shop you describe is only what the English establishment would
have allowed at the moment.
Once you have power you can use it to influence the steady seeping of more
power to Wales.
If you have no power and your representatives are always outnumbered by
someone else's or even belong to another power..
You will be left to wither on the vine as an afterthought.
Which to me as an Englishman is basically what Wales has always been.
As the song goes." If you tolerate this,then your children will be next".
--Ikie

Simon J Fisher

2003-09-02 10:21:56 UTC